While a personal brand is … well…personal. It isn’t something you should work on defining on your own.
But have you ever thought about working with personal brand coach? Do you wonder what it would be like? What would you talk about? What conclusions would you walk away with?
This episode is going to be a little bit different. In this episode, I’m going to give you a little taste of what I do with clients in my personal branding work.
It's not like a whole session, but my brilliant podcast editor, Sarah Scott of Sarah Scott Studios, has said to me, “I think it might be interesting to see you do your thing on an episode.”
And so I've turned that right back around on her and said, “how about I do it with you?”
She of course agreed!
So I'm very excited for today's conversation with Sarah about her personal brand.
This is not nearly as thorough or as specific as I would do with an actual client, but I wanted to give you an episode that hopefully you could take some of this discussion back to yourself and use it to figure out some more of your own personal brand.
Tune in as we talk about:
[00:00] Welcome! This episode will be a little different!
[01:31] Introducing the Guest: Sarah Scott
[02:49] Sarah's Journey from Healthcare Consulting to Podcast Management
[06:41] The Importance of Niching in Business
[09:41] How Your Experiences Can Lead to Building Your Personal Branding
[12:50] The Power of the Personal Brand Coaching Pre-Work
[14:21] Digging into Past Experience for Your Personal Brand
[23:30] Blending Skills to Define Your Personal Brand
[29:00] Building a Personal Brand
[32:33] One way Christine built her brand
[33:14] Choosing a platform for your brand
[35:49] Benefits of Establishing Your Brand
[38:34] The Power of Networking to Build Your Brand
[47:30] Defining Your Brand: The Struggle of Self-Representation
[51:42] Generous Curiosity: The Key to Successful Branding
[58:26] Where to Find Me: Connecting with Sarah Scott
[59:18] Wrapping Up: The Journey of Personal Branding
Contact Sarah Scott:
Website: Sarah Scott Studios
Linkedin: Sarah Scott
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[00:00:03] Welcome! This episode will be a little different!
Christine Gritmon: Hello, and welcome to Let's Talk About Brands. I am your host, Christine Gritmon, and I'm normally coming at you every single week interviewing someone, a professional of some sort, ideally someone in marketing or branding, about different elements of branding, especially personal branding. This episode is going to be a little bit different.
I'm really excited about this. This episode is actually going to give you a little taste of what I do with clients in my personal branding work. It's not like a whole session or anything, but my brilliant podcast editor, Sarah Scott of Sarah Scott Studios, she has said to me, I think it might be interesting to see you do your thing on an episode.
And so I've turned that right back around on her and said, how about I do it with you? So I'm very excited for today's conversation with Sarah about her personal brand. Again, this is not nearly as thorough or as specific as I would do with an actual client, but I did want to give you a taste in a way that could be helpful to you as well.
So with a real client, it would go much more in depth. It would be a lot more dealing with specifics, but I wanted to give you guys an episode that hopefully you could take some of this work, take some of these questions, take some of these discussions back to yourself and use yourself to do, to figure out some more of your own personal brand. All right, so without any further ado, let's bring her on.
[00:01:31] Introducing the Guest: Sarah Scott
Christine Gritmon: Sarah Scott, come on down.
Sarah Scott: Yay. I got my own applause.
Christine Gritmon: Yeah, it's funny because a lot of times guests are surprised by the applause, pleasantly, hopefully, but you hear it every week.
Sarah Scott: I do. I do, but I
Christine Gritmon: right?
Sarah Scott: Yes,
Christine Gritmon: feels good.
Sarah Scott: does.
Christine Gritmon: All right, Sarah, since you're our star this week, I of course know you and what you do, but let's start out by telling the good folks at home.
Who are you and what do you do?
Sarah Scott: All right. So my name is Sarah Scott. Hello, everybody. I am a podcast manager. So what I do is I have a portfolio of podcasts that I help to manage. So that comes down to things like editing and helping with distribution and content. also that the podcast host can have a lot of fun just. Recording their episodes, meeting with the people they want to meet with, and then not having to worry about all the follow up that comes from that.
So that's in a nutshell what we do.
Christine Gritmon: And that is so huge. most podcast producers, most anyone who creates content of any sort wishes there were more of them to split up some of that work because repurposing is everything, but repurposing is. tricky to get to. All right.
[00:02:49] Sarah's Journey from Healthcare Consulting to Podcast Management
Christine Gritmon: So I assume that you did not start your career as a podcast manager.
I think, we're similar in ages. They didn't exist when we started our careers. So I'd love to hear how, you got into this line of work. How did you start being a podcast manager? And also how recent. Is that that's how you're, primarily defining yourself professionally?
Sarah Scott: Okay. so yeah, no, not where we started and not. Where I expected to go at any point in time. So my background, I came from healthcare, actually healthcare consulting in the technology space. that was my bread and butter. I was a trainer. I love training software. Software is my, bread and butter, my very favorite thing in the entire world, I love geeking out over software because.
It's, I don't know, I find technology fun, not overwhelming.
Christine Gritmon: just to cla just to clarify, when you say healthcare consulting, you were specifically a tech consultant in the healthcare space, is that correct?
Sarah Scott: and yeah, that's probably the easiest way to define it. So I worked on a proprietary software that was installed in hospitals. And so I spent most of my career traveling the country, teaching people how to install and use our software. on the one hand, it was a fantastic career. I love traveling. I got to go all over the country.
got to see all kinds of things, meet all sorts of interesting people. I love being in front of people. So the idea of being in front of a classroom all the time was a lot of fun. but eventually that career came to an end and I, about five years ago, started my own business working as a social media consultant, and really that.
Was born out of the work I did as a healthcare consultant. not at the time, not knowing the phrase digital marketing, but I spent a lot of time trying to engage our client base by doing monthly webinars or having a newsletter or, trying to figure out like, how do we repurpose this for sales content?
And so I was doing a lot of the work without defining it the way that the market defines it. And so once I realized like this was actually a thing that people did in real life, I started working in that space. And so I started taking on some local clients, doing some social media stuff and things along those lines, but it never really stuck as a, I just wasn't gaining clients.
I wasn't differentiating myself enough. And then one day, one of my clients, some of your podcast or some of your listeners might know her, Andrea of all, she came to me one day and says, you know what? I want to try a new thing. Have you ever done anything with podcasting? And I said, no, not besides listening.
No, nothing. And she says, let's try this thing together. And I said, all right, let's go for it. And Just over a year ago, she launched the Late Starters Club and that became an obsession for me around really loving the process of creating these podcasts and hearing these conversations and helping people get their voice and their messages and their stories out there more.
And it snowballed from there, went from Andrea to a mom podcast to you, to several others now that I've been bringing on board. And it's just been a lot of fun.
Christine Gritmon: And it's catching on much better than, the social media thing did, which is interesting because it's part of what you do. When you were describing your career in social media, it sounded like One of the things that you enjoyed was the re was the content repurposing and how can we spin this out and all of that, and that's so much of what you do now.
It's interesting that it caught on with podcasts specifically, like it needed that extra ingredient.
Sarah Scott: Yeah.
[00:06:41] The Importance of Niching in Business
Sarah Scott: I heard somebody used the term the other day, double niching. she's I'm double niched and that's why it works so well. And it was funny cause I'm like, that's a really weird term, but technically I think that's what I've done too, is I've double niched. I've niched down to.
Social like in a lot, in a sense, it's social media or content repurposing in the podcast space. And I think the reason it's caught on so is because podcasters understand the work that's being done. I think where I struggled with social media was. that when you would pitch social media creation, content management to a small business, they didn't understand the impact it would actually have to their business.
They, it didn't make a lot of sense to them. How was it going to affect their bottom line? Oh, they never really saw anything happen before. So the investment was a lot harder for them to make with podcasters. They understand the investment, they know that there's more they wanted to do with this content that they aren't getting around to, that they want to be able to do bigger things and have that space to be able to do that.
So the investment makes sense for them because they can see where that's going to go.
Christine Gritmon: That's a really good point. That's actually pretty similar to my own journey, because I was doing social media for small businesses who didn't get social media. So they didn't understand it, they didn't work in it, they were like, Look, just, I'm at your mercy. But they didn't understand the investment as much as someone who maybe does social media or maybe works in digital marketing but has trouble marketing themselves.
They understand that a little bit better. Speaking of marketing, oneself. So you have double niche down. So you are, so what are the two niches? Just to clarify. So podcasting and,
Sarah Scott: guess you would say content creation.
Christine Gritmon: alright,
Sarah Scott: it's, more than just, it's not necessarily just social media though. That's a big portion of it. but it's also looking at like email content or looking at opt ins. Like I look at it all in a broader scope with a lot of my clients. It's this is the cornerstone pieces, this podcast, but then what else can we do with it? Can we create a blog post? Can we create that social content? Is that going to be a reel? Is that going to be a, is it going to be a carousel post? What else can we do? Where else can we share this? How else can we use this?
So that the hour or so that you spent recording this content is then giving you so much more than you thought you could get from it.
Christine Gritmon: Absolutely. So it's clear to hear that this lights you up, that you love that creative challenge of figuring out. And as you said, one of the things you love about podcasts is hearing the interviews and helping people get their voices out there. So that's clearly part of what lights you up about this work.
[00:09:41] How Your Experiences Can Lead to Building Your Personal Branding
Christine Gritmon: One thing that was very interesting to me that I didn't know before this conversation right here is in your previous career when you were talking about being a tech trainer for health care, two things you mentioned really loving that don't seem like they play into this career, which is that you loved traveling and that you loved being on stage.
So I'd love to dig into that a little bit more, what you loved about those things. And if you've thought about making room for them in this career, or if that's just keeping it separate. Because you've heard me talk about this before. There's task based skills. So there's task based things like, I like repurposing content.
But then there's the skills behind them, the stuff that you keep that's yours that you bring to the task, and that stuff is innately you and can be applied to numerous tasks. So in that case, that would be, you like amplifying other's stories, which is something that we share. So there's a difference between the task of Repurposing content versus the skill of amplifying people's stories, which is what really lights you up.
two of those things that lit you up in the past job that aren't part of the current one, the travel and the getting up in front of people. Let's dive into that a little bit, because those don't seem like they're part of your current gig.
Sarah Scott: So that's really interesting. So no travel is intentionally not part of this gig because of my family. So unlike you, I'm not nearly as brave to travel with my family. so the travel portion was taken out because of them. So young kids, crazy schedules. And so I've. Intentionally taken that out. I'm hoping it will come back in at some point.
I'm not sure how at this moment in time, but I am hoping it will come back in some way, shape or form. And as for the 2nd piece, the stage piece. That is something I am hoping will come back in. I am, part of me is still working on the idea that I'm going to be launching my own podcast, hopefully in the new year.
So that will give me, while it is not physical stage presence will still give me the practice of presenting. And I am hoping to start getting on stages again, as soon as I can find the right message. I think right now I'm still struggling with. What is that message that I want to be able to bring to a stage that can be used?
Not just this whole general, Oh, Hey, use podcasts in your business. That seems to be a very broad message that a lot of people have shared over time that I've seen. I'd like to be able to change that into something a little bit different that I could bring. And I really have no idea what that's going to be, but it's.
Definitely something a little bit more than that I think is where I want it to go. But I am hoping to be on stages again.
Christine Gritmon: Absolutely. It seems like the question to answer there preemptively in the minds of people who are receiving your message is going to be, but why a podcast? And so that's something that makes sense to be trying to get to the bottom of.
[00:12:50] The Power of the Personal Brand Coaching Pre-Work
Christine Gritmon: All right, so I'm going to roll it back a little bit. I had given you some pre work and just so people are aware, when I work with clients, I give them very specific pre work.
I really do, chunk it down to be very specific to their situation. But I gave you the super ultra mega version, the generic version, which, which you wonderful listeners can download for yourself. You can get that at Gritmon. com. Gritmon. com, G R I T M O N dot com slash P R E W O R K, Gritmon.
com slash Prework. It's huge. this is not something that you need to feel the need to answer every question at all. Answer the ones that resonate with you. And I always say, the ones that are the trickiest to get into, sometimes that's where the gold is. So I'd love to hear from you, Sarah, as someone who looked through all these bajillion questions, what were some of the questions, if you can think of any, that really unlocked a particular, pathway of thinking that maybe you hadn't given thought to, or maybe not from that direction.
Are there any in particular where you're just like, Oh, hold up. did you have any of those moments with particular questions at all?
[00:14:21] Digging into Past Experience for Your Personal Brand
Sarah Scott: Yeah. I love them with some of the ones that you had that were really reflective of me as a whole person, not just me as my business. So there were a few that you would ask around, like what are some of the things that you've. done or have done that have nothing to do with your business that you enjoy doing.
And I, it was interesting. I, so I did it in two phases. I actually read it through the first day you gave it to me. I read through all of the questions, kind of high level, just to let them marinate a little bit and see what I thought about them. And then I sat down and then tried actually answering as many of them as I could. And so some of that stuff did stick with me around, what are the other things in my life that I've either ignored or I haven't done as much or lit me up in the past? And the
Christine Gritmon: Or thought weren't relevant. I think that's the biggest thing, too. We're like, okay, I did, for me, I've talked about this before, my singing. I used to sing all the time, and I haven't incorporated that into things at all. And you sing, too. there's things like that where we think, yeah, but that has nothing to do with what I do for work.
But anyway, it's an interesting pathway. sorry to interrupt. I'd love to hear a little bit more about your thoughts on that and where you went with it.
Sarah Scott: and actually it's exactly where I was going with it was that, I was a singer for the longest time. I was professionally trained as an opera singer when I was a kid and. my poor mother investing all this money in my singing career that never became a career, not that she wanted it to be.
But, and I don't do it anymore. I don't sing as much anymore besides like sing in the shower and, there's that, kind of went by. But with that also came a few other things that I didn't think about before that I have done over time as well, which were. I've been part of singing groups, choirs, theater, almost my whole life.
the idea of being on stage or being part of productions has always been a light for me. Whether I was on stage or behind stage, I've been, I've been on the stage as an actor and a performer. I've been behind the scenes as a stage manager, director and things on those lines as well.
And they always lit me up. being in those environments in that teamwork there, there is, if you've never worked in theater, there is something. Special about the group of people that come together and work on a production. And I miss that in a lot of ways. And that sort of answering those questions reminded me of that.
But what it also reminded me of was that I have spent a lot of time in my life, coaching people unknowingly. Like I wouldn't say it was like a professional coaching thing, but it was. it comes down to, I've spent so much time teaching and speaking in front of people that I have worked with other people to make them better speakers, make them better trainers, make them better singers, sharing tips and tricks and helping them get over things.
And I don't do that as much as I used to do. And I really used to love that a lot about some of my past and some of the things that I do. And it was interesting to go through that and realize Hey, between. My love of technology and my used to piece of being, a trainer and being on stages.
I don't do as much of that anymore. And now I'm wondering why.
Christine Gritmon: And the thing that's really interesting to hear you say that, so first of all, that connects back to what you said before lit you up when you were in healthcare tech. You loved training people. You loved being on stage and training people. And in my own work with you, as your client, you don't just repurpose my material.
You constantly have strategic ideas to make it better. You are a podcast coach.
Sarah Scott: that's interesting. Hadn't thought of that before.
Christine Gritmon: Yeah! You're a podcast coach! Like, where could we go with that? Where would you feel like going with that? Because it's, really fascinating to me how those two pieces, what lit you up in your previous career, and where that went with things that you bring to the table that weren't work related. So where could you possibly see going with that?
Let's explore that now, live. laughs
Sarah Scott: Alright, so I started exploring this. And not even that long ago, so this is a really weird moment, in terms of where things are going. So my husband and I were going out to dinner this past weekend and we were talking about a variety of different things. And I said, I have in my mind when I start my podcast, and, the reason I haven't started, cause I struggle with what it's going to be about.
But one of the things I had said is I have a guest I'd really like to interview. And I said, it's like a dream guest, like no way in. probably a hundred lifetimes I'd ever get this person on a podcast, but, and he asked me who, and I said, I would love to get Jimmy Fallon on. And my husband says, why him?
And I said, for my podcasters, like one of the biggest things they have to focus on is storytelling, whether they're telling their own story or interviewing to somebody and pulling that story out of the interview. And I think it's an area that a lot of people could use more. Practice. They could use more tips on how do you do this?
Cause you know, a lot of the podcasters I work with are interview based podcasters, a lot like you. And sometimes the interviews are great and they work easy and it's a fabulous story from start to finish, but other times it's really a pull to. Find the story and to keep control of the, interview. And I said, Jimmy Fallon does this every night.
Now granted, I know he has got a team of people, but he still pulls it off in such a way where he sits there and he can pull this off and show what the world, Highlight the guest still makes himself funny and really demonstrates who he is through all of that. So there is a direction I think that I would love to be able to take at some point, which is really, as you put words to it, a podcast coach where I want to be able to coach.
My podcasters, not just on how to reuse the content, but how do you become a better podcaster? How do you tell better stories? How do you become a better interviewer? your previous career was
Christine Gritmon: I was a journalist. A lot of
Sarah Scott: journalism,
Christine Gritmon: from journalism.
I'd love to, I'd love to point out one thing. You said how to tell a better story, but really, the skill with interviewing is how to get someone else to tell a better
Sarah Scott: Right. And I don't, and we don't always think about that as a skill. I don't think, one of the things with podcasting, and there's a lot of areas of the digital space where it's like, Hey, of course, writing is another one. Hey, you can just slap together this thing and you can run off with it and make a million dollars and podcasting's got that same.
Marketing verbiage that says, Oh, it's so super easy. Just turn on your camera or just turn on your mic and off you run. And yeah, you can start there, but just like with everything else, we've got to get better at it. We have to get better at telling our stories. We have to get. better at listening to what there is.
and so many people go the interview route because interviews are perceived as being easier. You're not the one that has to carry the whole conversation. Or if you are doing a video, you're not staring at yourself on video, for 20 or 30 minutes or whatever that happens to be. And. So while in a sense, yes, it's a lot easier.
I also see where it is also much more difficult because it does require a skill from the host of being able to do that level of interviewing. And I just don't know that it's something that they focus on as much is how do I improve that skill? How do I get better at pulling that out or helping that interviewee tell that tale?
And one of the things I hear most often too is I don't get a lot of soundbites. And, it can be true depending on who you're interviewing. There may not be a lot of soundbites, but you also have to guide your guests to those soundbites. And again, I think it's all just a skill that needs to be developed, but it's not focused on in that way when I'm looking at like the podcast industry as a whole.
Christine Gritmon: So that's interesting. I'm going to point out. One thing you said there that connects to something we identified earlier about you that lights you up, and also something that lights me up, so I'm bringing myself into this too. I would say create, creating a good interview, in addition to figuring out how to, inspire someone to tell a better story themselves, which has to do with tapping into their passions.
My thing, My special sauce that I bring to everything is my enthusiasm for finding the magic in things. I do that, every day when I see a pretty leaf on the street, but I also, that's why I'm, that's why I'm able to bring stories out of people, because I'm fascinated by them. I think that everyone has that gold in there.
[00:23:30] Blending Skills to Define Your Personal Brand
Christine Gritmon: With you, I'd point out that doing an interview is creating live content. And having those moments in there where, you get those sound bites, that's almost, live creating the future repurposing. if you're creating the rich content with an eye towards the many micro content moments within, I think that could be a special skill for you.
I think that, okay, so I want to talk to you about the podcast that you are going to start, but then I have a big audacious idea for you that I would love to see. But I'm not going to start there because I could be totally off track. So let's talk about this podcast that you intend to start. And by the way, you've been talking about this for a long time. So I, I absolutely know what that's like. those of us who are passionate about things, but at the same time we want it to be right, it can lead to a delay in starting. Of course, when you care, you delay. Even though you know from watching other people that the way to do it is to start. Be imperfect and get better.
But, tell me about your podcast idea and the podcast that you plan to start at the moment. Podcast
Sarah Scott: Okay. So at the moment, and I think I'm finally landing on the idea. Just the name hasn't stuck yet. So it's, so I got talked into doing the, being the podcaster who talks about podcasts to podcasters and. but the twist I want to do on it a little bit is a, I want to talk to podcasters specifically.
I would like to spend more time talking with women because I don't feel like there's enough female voices in the mix of all of the chaos that is out there. I still feel like so much of what is done out there is a male dominated voice. Not that's the worst thing in the world. There's a lot of great men.
but
Christine Gritmon: PodcastBros are a thing. It's a cliche for a reason.
Sarah Scott: I know, right? Like marketing bros and everything else. It's it's, guys, we love you, but women, we got to step it up and we don't, and it's scary. And I am a terrible and probably the perfect example of why we're not stepping it up. it's, I want to share the stories of women that I know that are in podcasting about their journey as podcasters.
Why are they doing it? What are they doing? What are they? What have they found that was great? What have they tripped over? What, has it brought to them to be a podcaster? And I'm hoping that in the one sense, those stories will inspire more people to want to take to the stage because, one of the things with me, I understand, again, as a digital marketer.
I've spent a lot of time understanding content and how important it is to our businesses and what we need to do. But I am not a writer, I am a talker. I have been a talker my whole life. And so podcasting offers this great ability to take my words, my spoken words that I'm far more comfortable with sharing and moving that into written word and into other pieces.
So I want to be able to encourage other. Other women to do the same thing to get their voices heard to raise them to not sit behind and have all these amazing thoughts that nobody ever hears because we think other people are already doing it. So I want to be able to demonstrate that to. Everyone through all the amazing women I know that do it, and even the amazing women I have yet to meet that are doing it.
And then the other side of that really is beyond just the guests. I want to be able to educate. I want to be able to show people how do I do the things that I do. I want to talk about, I want to take a very Pat Flynn approach to a lot of this as well in terms of The whole, I'm going to be be like in the weeds doing it myself and sharing that experience of, Hey, I tried this thing and this is what happened.
Or, Hey, I want you to try this technique on your next interview. Try to do this a little bit differently or try to do that. So similar to some of the, content or things I would share with you guys as my podcast clients, I want to be able to share that more generically as well with other people who are interested in working with their own podcasts.
Christine Gritmon: I didn't realize the female focus, of your plan and I love that. Of course, you've got a few great guests to start with.
Sarah Scott: I have a lot of great guests to start with. And actually my, I have one exception, but for the exception of one and. No, he, see, I didn't say necessarily I would limit all my guests, but, and he would be on the educational side, not necessarily like the, learning, the, highlighting the podcast side.
but I do all of my clients at the moment, all of my active clients, I'll say it that way, are all female. Every one of them is a female podcaster and it hasn't necessarily been. Entirely the intention going into it, but now that it is here and it is what I've been doing, I am so in for it. these women are all absolutely amazing.
They have the best things to say and they need to be elevated and they need to be seen. And if I can be a small part of that for them. That's amazing.
Christine Gritmon: You're triple niching, girl. I love it.
Sarah Scott: See, I don't really, I guess I didn't think of the woman part as tripled as a part of a niche, but I suppose it is right. Cause
Christine Gritmon: I love
Sarah Scott: further defines.
[00:29:00] Building the Brand
Christine Gritmon: I have an idea for you. And it's, gonna sound like, oh my God, that's a lot of work, but I think it actually plays really well to the type of work you do well. I want you to think about creating three things at once.
Sarah Scott: Oh, what do you want me to create?
Christine Gritmon: because it's the doing of the thing, but it's not actually creating things at, three things at once.
It's creating one big thing. And spinning off three separate things out of that. So the rich work is what it is, but then it's, so you ready? Here's, what I see for you.
Sarah Scott: Okay. I know. Yeah.
Christine Gritmon: the podcast, obviously. And we've talked about this before, you mentioned you're a Friends fan, and I love the idea of Ugly Naked Podcast, because it's about the true bare bones, here's how it is podcast.
But I, know it's not, I even designed a logo for you.
Sarah Scott: You did, but do you know what my absolute, I have an absolute fear with that name of what I am going to attract
Christine Gritmon: naked's
Sarah Scott: you are not a Friends fan.
Christine Gritmon: Yeah, okay, that's fair. Okay, so you have, forget the name, that's not my department, that's not the type of branding I do, that's all you. although, I'll, brainstorm with you anytime. first of all, there's the podcast. So it sounds like the podcast is going to be you interviewing female podcasters about podcasting and that's fantastic.
I think that's a great thing. So that is what it is.
Sarah Scott: Yep.
Christine Gritmon: Then I want you to do two other things on the side. I would love for you to create content out of creating that content because this is your first podcast. You have said straight up that it's going to require practice, that, you're gonna, no matter how much you know about it from an academic standpoint or from, a being behind the scenes and help producing it pot standpoint, doing it is so different.
So I think you sharing those experiences would be epic.
Sarah Scott: Yeah.
Christine Gritmon: along on the journey, maybe after you record a podcast. You could be like, all right, here's how I feel about what I just did.
the good, the bad, and the ugly, what you think you did well, what you could improve next time, just going into it. Even when you're like starting to, even the preamble of trying to figure out what to call it, trying to book guests. just really, cause, the thing is you're building the plane while flying it.
And, any, content creator does that, but especially if they're creating a type of content they haven't created before. So I think that, one example is, I don't know if you saw this, but Social Media Examiner, a few years ago, Mike Stelzner created a mini series on YouTube called The Journey.
And it was
Sarah Scott: Oh, I did.
Christine Gritmon: yeah, and it was behind the scenes, and it was all about how they were trying to hit a certain goal for that following year's social media marketing world. So, that was, again, behind the scenes of here's what the not totally smooth elements of this look like. And it's really humanizing and in your case it would be really educational because a huge part of what you want to do with it is to educate.
So what better way to educate than to take people along as you learn yourself.
[00:32:33] One way Christine built her brand
Christine Gritmon: Part of how I built my personal brand was I live tweeted the crap out of conferences because I was going there to learn. the way that I learned any of this stuff, was originally just by geeking out on it and learning from other people, and so I decided to share that learning.
I was like, why on earth would I hoard it? And that actually got me recognition as someone who was a source of this great information that actually came from other people, but I was sharing it. So I think that speaks really well to your desire to educate, but it also might be a nice way to take the edge off the wanting it to be perfect.
Sarah Scott: Yeah. I hadn't thought of that way. That's a good point.
[00:33:14] Choosing a platform for your brand
Christine Gritmon: it would be a different format. Don't do a podcast about creating a podcast about creating
Sarah Scott: Creating a podcast for podcasters.
Christine Gritmon: Yeah, I don't know what type of format you'd feel better doing it in. I don't know.
Sarah Scott: Maybe it's LinkedIn con or I'm mostly on LinkedIn, but it could be Instagram content as opposed as well.
Christine Gritmon: it would have to be something that you would want to do, and I don't consider you a huge Instagram gal.
Sarah Scott: I'm not a huge Instagram. I'm not a huge social media gal and that's. That's a big, weird, that's a big weirdness for me,
Christine Gritmon: your mind went to LinkedIn first, so you could create a LinkedIn newsletter, perhaps?
Sarah Scott: Ooh,
Christine Gritmon: you've said that you're not a writer, you're a talker, but as you are someone who's very good with Descript, so you could always speak your article. first of all, there's audio on LinkedIn. LinkedIn audio is a thing.
you can
Sarah Scott: use it anymore?
Christine Gritmon: I don't know, but it exists. You can be a pioneer, Sarah.
Sarah Scott: I'll be, I'll reinvent it.
Christine Gritmon: Yeah. Also, it could be a privately embedded podcast, so you're not actually recording a whole other podcast, but you are embedding that audio in the or, again, you could just, transcript it. I think that's the way to go.
If you're comfortable with LinkedIn, it should be some sort of LinkedIn content series, maybe, is a thought. it, you shouldn't force yourself to be vulnerable in a space that you're not comfortable in.
And I would say don't go make a TikTok series out of this. But wait. But wait, there's more. you've got the podcast. You've got the content about your learning process of putting this podcast together, which should actually debut before the podcast.
Sarah Scott: It should. Yeah, that, that makes sense. What's
Christine Gritmon: third part's gonna sound a little nutty.
Sarah Scott: Let's go with Nutty.
Christine Gritmon: I would, while you are creating that side content about what you're learning during this process, start cobbling together the skeleton of a course,
Sarah Scott: know, I thought about that.
Christine Gritmon: what better time to understand the learning process than when you yourself are going through the learning process?
Sarah Scott: It's very true. I know. Yeah. I hadn't cons, I hadn't actually considered that piece. That's,
[00:35:49] Benefits of Establishing Your Brand
Christine Gritmon: Yeah, because what better way To establish, so here's what that does. Triple establishment for you eventually getting into being more of a podcast trainer.
Sarah Scott: Yeah.
Christine Gritmon: is how I could see you. I could see you being a podcast coach, podcast trainer, whatever you want to call it. so you're triply, establishing credibility and establishing your brand as, yeah, of course I already do this, um, which is, first of all, there's the people who want to see the polished product.
They don't want to learn podcasting from someone who's not a podcaster. Okay. You're a podcaster, so you've got that part sorted. Then there's the fact that the people who are following along for your journey and learning as you learn, that develop, that develops trust. I have to shout out Bob Berg every second of my life.
Know, trust. You got to develop, you got to have people knowing you, liking you, and trusting you. The knowing you is just by being visible. The liking you. is because they're able to latch on to something because you're showing your personality, but the trust, that's where the vulner that's where the vulnerability is a superpower.
Sarah Scott: Yeah.
Christine Gritmon: trust because they see you admit when you don't know something. So then when you share that you do know something, they're like, clearly she does know that something because if she didn't, she would tell us. And we know that because when she hasn't, she has told us. And it also establishes you as someone who is curious to figure out the right way to do something.
And eager to share that lesson with others because you're literally doing that. So that means when it's time to actually launch a course, you have that trust. You'll probably have people actually asking you for one before you've made it.
Sarah Scott: Wouldn't that be nice?
Christine Gritmon: Oh god, I have weird light pattern things happening on my face. Alright,
Sarah Scott: was going to say, look, it's one of those rare days that the sun is out in the UK.
Christine Gritmon: the sun will come out when I'm recording. Alright, I should have closed that shade, but that's okay. Alright, we'll cut this out of the audio podcast.
Sarah Scott: And we can always make it a blooper reel and the rest of it.
Christine Gritmon: Video exclusive. Exclusively on YouTube.
I would definitely, I think, that this is a thought because, again, I, I think that even though the podcast, the Shiny Actual podcast, feels like the main thing, I think you'd be surprised at how much you sharing your journey becomes the thing that actually gets you stages.
Sarah Scott: And that's, that would be really interesting.
[00:38:34] The Power of Networking to Build Your Brand
Christine Gritmon: Although, the people you interview on your podcast are also an incredible way to build a network of people in the podcasting community. I can see you, again, I know travel is not super on your radar right now,
Sarah Scott: will be.
Christine Gritmon: but there are in person and online stages. There are online summits, there are things like this, especially now.
since 2020,
Sarah Scott: Thank God they're coming back.
Christine Gritmon: yeah, lots of online things, that you could get started there and once you've built up that reputation speaking on the online speaker circuit, your kids will be a little older, and you might feel a little more comfortable getting out there. Though at the same time, you're not going nowhere.
We met at a conference.
Sarah Scott: Oh yeah. I'm going to conferences and things, which is, has been amazing. there is such a click over energy. I don't know any other way to describe it. Like I feel more in my own being when I'm at those conferences and I'm around other professionals and it's just Oh yeah, this was what it was like to be a professional
Christine Gritmon: What elements of that light you up? When you've been to events and you're feeling It clicking in and you're feeling that electricity of being in your zone. What elements tend to be the moments where that happens? Is it in sessions? Is it in between sessions meeting people? Is it totally outside at dinner?
Is it like meeting in real life the people who you've been listening to or reading forever? What does it for ya?
Sarah Scott: it's a big combination. I think of all of that. So like social media marketing world was amazing when I went there for the first time this past year. And I was meeting people who I've been following for years. And that was just like, I was sitting to dinner with these people and I felt and it wasn't like this huge dinner.
it was a table of maybe 15 people, but it was still like, Whoa, I am. And I don't think any of these people would think of themselves the way that I think of them, or how I even think of you these are names, these are people, if you were in these spaces and in these industries, they, people know who you are, and it's here I am having a conversation with you, and I'm having dinner with you, there was this feeling of feeling important or feeling recognized from some of those conversations, which I know is probably super shallow to say, but,
Christine Gritmon: No, I have that too. And, I have to say, You, again, being involved in my own podcasting career, When I got to interview Pat Flynn,
Sarah Scott: hello, right?
Christine Gritmon: And then when Pat Flynn interviewed me, I felt important. Like People geek out on that stuff, and even when you reach a certain level of success, there's people who still geek out on that stuff.
Sarah Scott: glad to hear that.
Christine Gritmon: yeah, we're both friends with Andrew and Pete, that's who introduced us. They geek out on people, of course they do, but they're Andrew and Pete!
Sarah Scott: right. And that's but they're Andrew and Pete, don't they know everybody, everybody knows them. And it's still yeah, they still,
Christine Gritmon: They get excited still, they get starstruck.
Sarah Scott: yeah. Like when they had Chris Doe last year at Atomicon, like you, if you watch them make that announcement, like they were star struck at the fact that he was even coming.
So it's all right. That does, that's a good point. And that does make me feel a little less. Bad about it, but that's probably one of the big things for me. Like I, because I'm an educator too, I'm always big on the sessions. I like getting in and. Going to the sessions, learning as we go. like you said, like I'm not a tweeter.
I'm not very much in the social media. I'm terrible. I'm not in the social media space, but
Christine Gritmon: I don't tweet things anymore either because
Sarah Scott: nobody does.
Christine Gritmon: It's X now and X is a different product. Sorry, rant over, continue.
Sarah Scott: No, that's a fair rant, such a fair rant. but, but I'm that same way. Like I like to hear what I hear and then share that. Because, when they're really good sessions, like I really love, really, good meaty sessions. one of my favorites that I still go back to from, social media marketing world, Judy Fox gave an amazing talk on LinkedIn and it was just like, I couldn't stop taking notes.
those are my, that really lights me up to get that kind of content. directly from these people on the stages, like not just following their stuff online or watching it there. so there's a light there too, but I think ultimately the last thing that truly gets me is one, it's this mindset of, I feel like I'm, Sarah.
And this is, I don't know how to define this really well, so I'm hoping you can maybe pull it out. But I'm not mom and I'm not a wife. I'm not all the other roles that I play when I'm at these conferences. yes, I still, of course, they're all still part of who I am. And anybody who saw me in the social media marketing world, like I snuck off at the end of most days, like around four o'clock or so, because I was reading a book to my kids.
And so I. video them and I was reading to them as they were going to bed. but like for the most part, I just got to feel like myself. I didn't have all these other things I had to think about and all these other places. So I felt like I showed up very differently while I was at the conference than I do in my everyday life most of the time.
because I just got to be me.
Christine Gritmon: You had your superhero cape on. I, describe, that professional version of myself as Christine effing Gritman.
Sarah Scott: Yeah. Yeah.
Christine Gritmon: and sitting around the house, before I came on this recording today, I was not Christine F. Ingritman. I was on the couch, eating reheated pizza.
I was not Christine F. Ingritman, and then I put on the red lipstick and prepared to sit here as Christine F. Ingritman, and I'm in that right now. I feel like a different person. And then, when I pick my kids up in the afternoon, I'm not Christine Effing - Gritmon, I'm just like random tired mom. So I totally understand that.
One thing that I want to point out, so you're fairly new to, the conference scene in this industry, but one really great thing that going to those events and speaking to people does, and especially something that you'll find interviewing these people does, is it humanizes them and it helps you realize There's no reason you can't be one of those also.
And that, I think, is something that's going to be incredibly valuable for you. And you have the right connections to be able to get serious people on. first of all, Andrea Ball, to begin with. That's a serious get. I'm looking forward to getting her. that's a serious get. you've got lots of people.
You mentioned Judy Fox. I can literally text my friend Judy from my phone for you right now if you want her on your podcast. Because, oh, she'd do it.
Sarah Scott: Envy. So much envy.
Christine Gritmon: you don't have to envy because you can, you have access to these wonderful people. And, I know Judy won't be like, don't go volunteering me for stuff.
Judy is so generous with her knowledge. That's
Sarah Scott: She's amazing. I got to meet her last year to that social media marketing world too. She's such a gem. Oh,
Christine Gritmon: that's the other thing you'll learn when you spend more time talking to these people. You'll learn which people are super genuine, down to earth people, like Judy, and then which people are more hype than substance and are less generous.
And, if your goal is to educate people, to educate yourself and to educate others along with you, you'll learn what people, are aligned with that goal and what people are not. And again, the best way to do it is to do it. I can think of someone, I'm not going to name them, and they'd never guess that this was them.
But years ago, I interviewed someone who I was very excited to interview and who's very supportive online, very rah and very personally And I interviewed them, and they were really clearly of the mindset of I'll give you my thoughts on this, but you can't really find out any of my special sauce without paying.
And that's not who I have on my show. You know that.
Sarah Scott: no,
Christine Gritmon: So I think, but I think you're going to have a great time. I think the people who you interview are going to have a great time because you're interviewing them. about not what they're always interviewed about. They're always interviewed about their area of expertise, or they're interviewing other people more of the time.
There's probably some people who you'll have on where their whole thing is being an interviewer, and they don't get interviewed a lot, but you're interviewing them about something very specific that isn't something that they get to talk about a lot. So that's going to be very cool. Okay, so I want to make sure that we do round this up eventually.
So twofer here, one thing is what are you still trying to answer for yourself about your personal brand, your messaging, your who am I business?
[00:47:30] Defining Your Brand: The Struggle of Self-Representation
Christine Gritmon: what are you still what's that nagging? unclosed loop. Cause I feel like we all have them. I'm a personal brand strategist and I certainly have them.
So, what's your thing that you feel like maybe it's not connecting either in your own head or it's connected in your head. It's just not connecting once it reaches the outside world.
Sarah Scott: Oh, that's a tougher question. You, that, last part is the tougher question actually, because I'm so funny because I tell people this all the time that I am terrible on paper and I am like a totally different person when you meet me, I feel like, and I could be completely wrong, but, I feel like that's always been like, Hey, my resume, like on paper, like.
but once people meet me and they actually get to know me, I think that I've always shined it. Like it's a very different opinion, Oh, you do all these things and you have all these skills and it just looks so different. And I think I still struggle with that even today in terms of like, how do I make sure, I guess it's a twofold thing that I think about struggling with.
One is how do I make sure that brand who I am or what that is comes across no matter how? I'm presenting it, whether it's in writing or it's on a podcast or it's on, a social media post, whatever it happens to be, but I think the deeper problem I have there, as well as one of the questions or several of the questions, a series of your questions that I struggled with was how.
What is it? And how is it that I want to show up in the world? What is it? The, you had things like, what are the words that you want your brand to express? And I have no idea. And a lot of ways I feel like I really struggle with what that is. And I look at folks like you and there's a few others that I look at that I think have really strong brand messaging and it comes across really clear to me, your personality and who you are and what I would expect if I was to meet you, which, again, I knew all that before I met you and I met you and it was 100 percent on everything. Like you were as on in person as you were in everything else that I had ever seen.
Christine Gritmon: love hearing that, especially now at this point, you're someone who's seen me in so many situations.
Sarah Scott: Yeah, but and, the truth, yes, and I've seen you in a lot of different situations, but you're still always you, I can't think of a time that I've seen you so off from anything. And when I do see you off, I know why you're off and it's usually an energy thing. And it's normally, like I said, I'll see it sometimes in conversations that you're having with guests where the energy doesn't match, but it's not that you're not 100 percent you.
It's just that it's still we all need that energy feed of the right people to pull us
Christine Gritmon: contain multitudes.
Sarah Scott: We do, especially as women, don't we contain so many multitudes?
Christine Gritmon: So
Sarah Scott: so I think that's the biggest thing I struggle with is how do I make sure that, A, how do I define that? what other guidance do you give around really defining that feeling around your brand or what it is people would expect from me?
and what do I want them to expect from me? Cause I know this isn't a lot different from who you are cause then you're fighting your brand messaging. and then how do I make sure it just shows up that way everywhere that I'm going, like regardless of whether or not it's the way that I properly communicate.
I think one of the biggest things I did recently was change the name of. I'm still in the process, but changing the name of the company from what I was, because I hated my old name of my company, which was elite media strategies, it meant nothing to me. It was so ostentatious and like pomp.
I felt like it was pompous, but it was something my husband and I came up with like in the middle of the night one night and it was like, Oh, this is really generic. And yeah, it was really generic. so by turning the name over to a studio name and it was a personal name, but it's the studio. I know I felt a lot more like I could step into that brand.
And into that message because of that. But I still don't know what that feeling is.
Christine Gritmon: Makes total sense.
[00:51:42] Generous Curiosity: The Key to Successful Branding
Christine Gritmon: I would say, just to volunteer some words that I associate with you, and especially after this conversation, I would say the words that are coming to me are, you come from a place of generous curiosity. And what I mean by generous curiosity is it's generous on both the front end and the back end, so it's generous curiosity insofar as you're genuinely curious in a generous way of I actually care what you have to say, I'm, you're generous with your giving of Hoot.
So you're generous in that way, and you really want to listen, but then you're generous on the back end, too, which is that once you have learned from that person, and once you have gotten their message, and once you've connected with that, and, done, gotten your own curiosity satisfied on some level, that it'll never be satisfied because you're a curious person.
You are generous with sharing that. as well. Not only do you want to share what you've learned, but you want to share that person's message. You said at the beginning, you really love helping people get their stories out there and amplify that. So I would say that you come at things from a place of generous curiosity.
I know that you are a very open and caring person. Here's the interesting thing. I feel like you absolutely don't need anyone else to be perfect. I feel like that's a very big thing. I feel like you are not a judgmental person. You have a point of view. But you're not judgmental. Like it's, a really cool balance, but I think that you are having an expectation of yourself.
And again, I think that putting yourself out there with a, mindset of, I don't have to know what I'm doing, because part of what I'm putting myself out there as is someone who is learning. I think that's gonna be really key for you. I think that's a really key direction. I think that loosening Those bounds of needing it to be right, and I understand wanting to be an expert, and that's huge, and I think you're gonna be, and I think you are on some levels already, because you have a really good instinct for this stuff, and everything, every time you do it, you're learning more, and you're retaining that, and you're using it, but I think that the, learner mindset and the teacher mindset go hand in hand.
I think that you don't have to be an expert to teach. People disagree. I think
Sarah Scott: It's going to be one step ahead of the person you're teaching.
Christine Gritmon: Exactly.
Sarah Scott: Honestly.
Christine Gritmon: I think you just need to be honest and open and Hey, I'm Sarah. I know some stuff. I want to know more stuff. If you want to know this stuff too, come along for the journey.
Sarah Scott: Yeah,
Christine Gritmon: Again, I think generous curiosity is really, do those
Sarah Scott: heard anybody say that. I don't know too many people that have, see, and every time you say something like that, the first person that comes to mind is Pat Flynn, because I know that's how he, when he first started everything, that was his kind of approach was, Hey, I don't know this stuff.
I'm learning this stuff.
Christine Gritmon: Serve first.
Sarah Scott: to learn it with me.
Christine Gritmon: Serve first is this whole
Sarah Scott: Yeah, and I, and it's really interesting because I think that when I do think back over the times and the things that always make me feel really good about myself is when I can't help somebody else. When somebody comes to me and says, Hey, I don't know, and this happened the other day and I was I was actually flattered that this person came and asked me a question and they're like, Hey, I know you use DSS script.
I'm having a problem with it. Can you help me figure this thing out? And I'm like, yeah, here's what I do. And here's what happens. And what, let me know, is it working? And, and I gave all my tips and my thoughts around what I thought it would do or how I would have approached the problem. And then, like two days later, I followed back up and I was like, Hey, by the way, did you fix the problem?
She's I'm just, she was, thank you for following back up with me. She's I didn't realize she was, I just, she wasn't expecting me to follow back up, it felt really good. And I'm like, if I don't know the answer, like here's, I'm going to look for it. I'm going to help you look for it because it's just, I want to know the answer to on how to fix something like that, but, and.
For me, that's just always been my modem. And what I hated, what I literally hated about that is that I had to take a step back and feel like as an entrepreneur, I had to caveat it somehow and say, Oh, don't worry about it. There's no cost to this. I'll help you get this fixed if I can, because I'd offered to like even bring the file into my own Descript for if it would help, if our versions were different or something.
And I'm like, I just do it as a friend just to help, and maybe that's not the right approach, but at the same time, she was stuck in a bind and she's a friend. but that's my approach to everything is Hey, if it makes me feel really good when people ask me like, Hey, do you know how to fix this thing?
Regardless of I actually know how to fix it or not,
Christine Gritmon: I love that she knew to ask you and you just illustrated generous curiosity. My goodness, you wanted to figure it out
Sarah Scott: it's all I wanted to do.
Christine Gritmon: you wanted to help her.
Sarah Scott: Yeah.
Christine Gritmon: Because you're generous. But you want to figure it out, because you're curious. Ah!
Sarah Scott: because eventually it's going to be my problem too. I guess it's a part of the way I always look at it is if somebody has this problem, then more than likely, if I haven't bumped into it yet, I'm probably going to bump into it.
Christine Gritmon: in this together. Rising tide lifts all boats,
Sarah Scott: boats, right?
Christine Gritmon: an educator wants to educate freely. An educator doesn't want to hoard their knowledge. An educator and someone who's actually interested in helping others do well, and helping others get their messages out there,
Sarah Scott: Yeah. not everything has sales pitch.
Christine Gritmon: Yeah. Oh my goodness.
I could talk about this with you all day.
Sarah Scott: And luckily enough, other people can,
Christine Gritmon: Yes. so again, I want everyone at home to know that you can get you can download for free, my huge Mondo version of some of the guiding questions that I start my clients on. You don't have to answer all of them, this is just for you, I promise. So do what feels right, don't do what doesn't, unless it doesn't because it's hard, in which case maybe do press on.
and, yeah, so you can get that at Gritman. com slash pre work. And Sarah. Wonderful Sarah Scott podcast person extraordinaire. Tell the good folks at home where they can find you, why they should find you, and what they will find there.
Sarah Scott: let me see.
[00:58:26] Where to Find Me: Connecting with Sarah Scott
Sarah Scott: You can find me on LinkedIn as Sarah Scott or Sarah Hutchins Scott. I think it's under all three names there. that's where I'm most often going to be found. You can also take a look at my website at Sarah Scott studios and you'll find me there as well. And I think the reasons why you might want to follow me, I think Christine laid those all out in the episode.
we're going to start. I'm sure that you will be finding I share a lot of stuff about creating podcasts, the podcasters I work with. and I also share a bit about my journey as an adjunct professor for university and some of the other quirky weird things that go on in life.
Christine Gritmon: We didn't even talk about the fact that you're an adjunct professor at a university. What? Okay,
Sarah Scott: Yeah,
so many facets.
Christine Gritmon: two. Maybe there's a part two coming up in 2024. You'll have to see.
[00:59:18] Wrapping Up: The Journey of Personal Branding
Sarah Scott: And just so you're listening to that free guide, we'll have that in the show notes. so if you're on your player, if you're watching on YouTube, just look in the description, the link will be right there for you. So you don't have to go too far to grab it.
Christine Gritmon: And Sarah's the one who put it there because Sarah's amazing. Thank you so much, Sarah. This has been awesome.
Sarah Scott: You're welcome. It's been so much fun.
Christine Gritmon: And thank you so much for being here. Whether you're listening to Let's Talk About Brand on your podcast player of choice or watching the video podcast on YouTube, either way, please subscribe and leave a message and or rating if you like it.
Again, this was not what one of my sessions really looks like. This was just a little test, a little taster of what some of that work and what some of those methodologies, tend to be like, I call it like the therapy bit is how I start with my personal branding clients. So please do reach out if you are interested in seeing what it really, looks like.
And regardless, either way, I do hope you'll join us next week for Let's Talk About Brand when it will be a normal episode where I'm interviewing another smart guest about another element of personal branding. Thanks. Bye.